Jareena Faye Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hey there... I haven't really spent much time in the General forum, since for the first time in my life I've been rather busy. *dramatic music plays, during which everyone looks around for the source. It stops, and we resume* I used to visit a Sonic board before the server crashed, and while there a big Christian vs. Evolutionist vs. Wiccan vs. Middle-Of-the-Roader debate would spring up every week, and some people would get very upset and try to verbally kill each other. Meanwhile, at the Batman message board, the moment a theological debate popped up, everyone would scatter and hide. People would do almost anything to avoid getting off superhero topics. I was just wondering, what kind of 'board is this? Do you ever talk about your personal beliefs? Are we all capable of having a good-natured argument without anyone being offended? Because if we could, it would be awesome. *licks lips* I love a good, friendly fight! So, how about it, fellas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasslehoff Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 The Pen is VERY open minded. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reverie Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Oh ppl rant on occasion... We don't Flame though... If you agruments are constructive and not personal attacks... then have at it... revery the dreamlost "trade?" the dream continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaneus Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I personally would enjoy a good debate, about religion especially, since I believe it is a limiting factor that was created to serve as a moral and political source of control. (No offense to any Christians or any followers of other religions) Heheheh. I do believe I have started the debate prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasmandre Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Eh, I gotta say I tend to agree. 9 years of Catholic schooling'll do that to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareena Faye Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) Yay, we've started already! *extremely wide grin* Did you know that even atheistic professors now agree that the human psyche NEEDS to believe in something supernatural, stronger than that person him- or herself? Evolutionists would say it's because we've evolved to be dependant on it, and Creationists would say God made us for Him. But I will admit that religion has been terribly misused over the years. I'll tell you, one thing I hate more than anything else is a church that claims Christianity, but is really nothing but self-righteousness and condemnation. So many of my friends have lost their faith because of it. In the past, so-called "Christians" have killed so-called witches and Jews in the name of Christ, and not only were those awful and bloody centuries, it's pretty much wrecked this world's view of what I believe to be the Truth. Wow, I really am ranting. I'll just say this... there are people who really have faith in something, and there are people who are trapped in stale religion. The latter are probably worse off than any sun-worshiping "heathen", because they they're so sure they're okay. Edited March 13, 2003 by Jareena Faye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Portrait of Zool Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I rant - but only with close friends. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenproletariat Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I gave up these particular debates a long time ago You'll never know the answer, ever. Why bother with all the frustration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett O'Harpy Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I enjoy debates too.. but am helplessly drawn to ones like the buttered cats debate, or the oft maligned cherry vs beef tomatoes debate. The old chestnuts tend to be rather predictable and dry to my eyes, rather like old chestnuts in fact. But that's an entirely different kettle of fish - and I don't even like fish... Scarlett trails off vacantly, shrugs, then sashays away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) Debates are fun, but I have a funny feeling that there are people at the pen who would be offended if a debate were to get heated or even serious. A good example is War. When posting on war, some might post their opinions which directly offend or hurt someone who has lost a loved one due to war. It opens up alot of doors that should have been left closed and can make enemies of those we now consider friends. You must also remember that we have young (both in age and experience) writers here who are passionate about their opinion and older writers who are skilled in debate. I just worry that our different views and levels of experience might also cause harm. Kind of like throwin a skilled boxer in the ring with a person who has only fought once or twice. The purpose of a debate is to win! well to a degree anyways. And most people are fiercly competative. Please do not continue the debate in this thread. If you want to debate on religion and it is the general consensus of the masses that it is alright..I would make a new topic with the word DEBATE in the title and continue there...so that those of us that are hurt easily by the arguments can avoid the threads. Edited March 13, 2003 by Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Examples of debate on another forum I mod... Some are good, others are ok..some are horrible. Just be aware that the pen is a public forum and can therefore have anyone post in response. As it is currently a debate might not get out of hand..but opening the doors to debate and new members coming in might not be something we want. -debate- power debate - No to War in Iraq Thread... Debate: Stupid protesters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett O'Harpy Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I think that's echoed my point, 'cept you did it more eloquently. It's much more fun imho to argue the toss about something which doesn't matter in the slightest. Passions are attitudes, debate skill is evident though tongues are firmly in cheeks - and better yet, noone's ego gets bashed. Just my Dhs2 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peredhil Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hmm. I'm against it personally. Too many excellent writers are adept at using their words to shield their emotions. Raging inside emotionally, they present a cool iron control to the world, and oh so reasonable fillet the other person. The hidden anger stains their words like crimson to me. But then, I'm overly sensitive to words in some ways. Perhaps in IRC, or in PMs or something. But intellectually discussing emotionally based unprovable paradigms usually is a unproductive pursuit. Opinions, generalities, quotes, and obnoxious innuendo. Bleh. I'd rather be in a place that nurtures and protects. There are many other sites that find combat threads fun. As you can tell - I'm emotional on this subject. Hugs everyone and saunters away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) Having been hurt by words recently..in a debate situation, I am also emotional on the subject and perhaps it is best if my previous posts were ignored as the points made might be biased based on the past. Edited March 13, 2003 by Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareena Faye Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Heh, well I'm sorry. I do know what it feels like to be flamed. And I do know what it's like to be inexperienced, and out-talked. But those bad experiences are what made me into a better debater. And if we could all keep it happy *cue rainbows and bunnies* I think we'd just find it an interesting exchange of viewpoints. We gotta learn how to not get upset sometime, right? The reason I think debates are good for you... Well, it actually has something to do with a communist brainwashing tactic [J'Faye in no way condones hatred toward communists or means to accuse anyone here of being communist thank you]. One method they have is to put a person, in this example I'll just say Christian, in a room full of people who vehemently oppose that person's views. They'll talk about how stupid it is. The Christian has two options. He can speak up for his faith, and be attacked from all sides, which will have a psychological peer-pressure affect and may cause him to lose faith. Or he can be quiet, which ALSO brings about psychological affects, because the human psyche cannot continue to believe in something he won't stand up for. It's an interesting thought. That's why I think it's good to know how to defend what you believe, not that you'll ever be a prisoner in a communist country. But there's actually similar peer pressure where we are, too. Here I am, debating about debates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I agree that in an ideal world people would use the debate to grow as writers and even fortify their beliefs..but I worry that instead they will be hurt, and withdraw from the pen and disappear. Maybe its not my place to protects others though. Rune shrugs and wanders out of the room, her arms hanging listlessly by her side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Darkcloud Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I'm going to add my voice to the list of those who are not excited about adding a regular debate element to the Pen. One of the reasons I joined this community is that it is different from other forums I've been involved with and an important element of that difference is the absence of the noise and rancor of debate threads. My experience of debate threads has been that the level of conversation is simply not up to the level of quality discussion but is generally little more than a series of strongly worded but poorly formed opinions flying back and forth. I'm much more interested in reading thoughtful words written in a thoughtful way about a subject than in either debating issues or in even reading a debate thread. There is an abundance of places where debate happens online, but there are very few places that maintain the more thoughtful and reflective atmosphere that is conducive to good writing. I've also seen a number of forums lose their character and focus because of the way a profusion of debate threads either changed relationships between members or took energy and attention away from the original purpose of the board. An occasional debate may well be a fine thing, but I'm a member here in no small measure because, to borrow the title of this thread for a moment, this is generally not a "ranting" community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I suspect we can all think of arguments that start lots of fun, but end up being a repitiion of the same old arguments. It happens online and offline. I personally think of the UBBs (a forum you may or not remember), but any discussion can do that. It starts out as a happy discussion for intellectual thought and ends up getting very serious and angry. I think (sure hope ; ) that we're generally a more mature crowd than some of those forums (UBBs : ), but I too would be happier if we didn't get intoregularly debates on real topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareena Faye Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) Well, I don't mean to start regular debates, just whatever's occasionally on your mind. Maybe I should start a poll about this. I just like a little deep thought every now and then. (Good old me, sowing discord wherever I go...) Edited March 13, 2003 by Jareena Faye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil StarGazer Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 But I will admit that religion has been terribly misused over the years. I'll tell you, one thing I hate more than anything else is a church that claims Christianity, but is really nothing but self-righteousness and condemnation. So many of my friends have lost their faith because of it. In the past, so-called "Christians" have killed so-called witches and Jews in the name of Christ, and not only were those awful and bloody centuries, it's pretty much wrecked this world's view of what I believe to be the Truth. Wow, I really am ranting. I'll just say this... there are people who really have faith in something, and there are people who are trapped in stale religion. The latter are probably worse off than any sun-worshiping "heathen", because they they're so sure they're okay. In this you are mixing up the two aspects of religion... the church as a human organization and the church as in the representation of beliefs... First, it is almost impossible to argue about God, since any gods on any religion preaches goodwill and peace on earth, fairness to all, and end to suffering. On this part everyone desires such and cannot agree that it is evil, it reflects human insecurity about their position in society... in believing God, we believe in a system or a being with higher power that will right wrong and brings justice to all... in many religion God became embodies with justice and truths... it was so mingled out that before any system of law was brought in place the word of God serves as law and much like the law system we have today, it gives faith and stability to society. On implimentation, however, religion became a disgusting word, and what perfectly Utopic ideas gets twisted by the hands of humanity... Many religion fantanic got the order around when they believe that what they do is justified by God rather then saying God will justified what they'll do. The problem begins when Human make God according to their own image. The characteristic of God becomes literally becomes the religious leader's personality. They believe that they represent the true will of God and thus began to mix their desire with God's desire... There's no escape on every religion: even now in rural India the higher Class Brahamas tortures the lowest class "Unspeakables" everyday... from the words of my World religion teachers they "forces the unspeakable's child to rape their mothers... and believe that whatever torment they suffer now will reduce their karma so when they reincarnate to another class and eveuntually join with the gods." Christians' 4-6 crusades are the prime example of corruption within the catholic church itself... in the 6th crusade the wester Roman Catholic, instead of liberating The Eastern Orthodux city Constanalpo (sp) from the Turks, they pillaged it, taking cash and other sacred items from churches, raping nuns, etc... This is Christian brothers slaughter each other all for the name of both their Gods... (and i won't even go near the alter boy/Gay catholic priest problem.) Ofcourse the most recent destructive action done by religion fanatism is the 9/11 itself, where the Islamic terrorists believe the destruction of American Civilization is the will of Allah and thus undergone such horrible acts of human catastophy taking with them thousands of of innocent human lives. All i can say is that when being initated into a religion... readily embraced their ideas... but definately question how they went about in doing things... Good thoughts doesn't always leads to good Results, and the road to hell is paved with good Intensions. While it can be said that God is perfection, the human organization that seeks to represent it is definately not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareena Faye Posted March 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 True dat. I think I agreed with 100% of what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Well, it actually has something to do with a communist brainwashing tactic [J'Faye in no way condones hatred toward communists or means to accuse anyone here of being communist thank you]. *Speaks into wrist communiacator* Comrade Putin, the fox knows about the plan. Abort, or much harm will result to the motherland. We will continue our studies at a further date.Accent> But seriously... Personally I'm fine with it, because I have such a short attention span, I wouldn't stick aroun long enough to get my fellings hurt... Oooh look... a butterfly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time ends Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 well, this being my first day, here at the pen, i dont want to make anybody upset, but I have feelings just like the rest of the world, and i feel religion, was made up, in order to help control people. i dont want to offend anyone, but thats my opinion. i have an open mind on most things, but religion just isnt one of them. i also feel, *looks around to make sure nobodies getting mad* that my opinion should be respected, just as I respect anyone elses opinion. i do not try to push my belife on to people, and i feel violated when people tell me i'm wrong, and that i need to have a religion, to be complete. so all in all i feel religion is not real but a "story" made up to control people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Portrait of Zool Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Time End's eyes are drawn above the fireplace to a huge full sized standing portrait of a man, with the tallest hairdo he'd ever seen and a rubber chicken laying neatly over one arm. The figure was speaking to him... Well Time Ends, this topic had kind of died because we really don't engage in competitive dialog here. I must say, though, that I too used to feel as you, violated when people disagreed with me. I felt as though if there was a chance they were right, then I was in danger of being wrong. My feeling of violation was my egoistic response to a perceived emotional threat. After some time though, and a lot of experimental participation, I found that I was really making a mountain out of a molehill. People's ideas - all people - are as individual as their faces. Certainly, you don't feel violated just because someone has a different face than you, yet that is exactly what we do when someone disagrees with us - we are rejecting their ideas with emotional prejudice, the prejudice being that we feel different ideas threaten us. Their telling us our ideas are wrong is no excuse for us to feel threatened. In that situation, you only have a double mirror amplifying the rejection. The fact is, if someone is rejecting you, that is about them, not you. And if they insult you, that is about them too, only reflecting their emotional state. Of course, the opposite is also true. If they praise us, that is really about them too. Wether or not you should choose to accept criticism, wether positive or negative, should be a matter of discernment, not need and emotion. Here at the Pen we know that because we explore it everyday, in the characters we write about and all the literary situations we are constantly exploring. So called 'facts' are actually a dynamic and tenuous agreement between observers with which we try to dodge the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, but the truth of it is that all the world's a stage, and all the people merely players. With that the figure in the painting fell silent, as did all the room - dead silent. The silence was suddenly broken when the rubber chicken, who had been swelling bigger and bigger as the monolog wore on until he was the size of a basketball, flatulently deflated in a long, blasting squeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peredhil Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Peredhil carefully paints a Gummi Bear and gives it to Zool. You are so expressive. I'd hug you but I don't want paint on the suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts