Mighty Pen Debate

[Katzaniel]

The Mighty Pen Debate!!

 

Depending on the number of signups, this may be 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2. You will not get to pick your partner, opponent(s), or topic, but you can indicate a preference for some topics via PM. I'll try to accomodate everyone, but that probably won't be possible.

 

Topics are innocuous things like "Be it resolved that blue is better than red."

 

What to know:

• The resolution is the topic. In this case, your are resolving that Blue is better than red.

• Your stance is either for (Affirmative) or against (Negative) the resolutions.

• If you are assigned Affirmative, you need to convince the audience/judges that blue is indeed better than red.

• If you are assigned Negative, you can convince them that red is better than blue, or simply that blue is not better than red (ie, blue and red are equal, or both have advantages, or some such). Or, you can simply attack the Affirmative's arguements: By default, if the Affirmative cannot convince the audience/judges, the Negative debaters win.

• Because it is harder to argue For the resolution, the Affirmative gets to speak both first and last.

What will happen:

• You will be assigned a topic and possibly a partner. You will not be told yet whether you are arguing for or against.

• If you have a partner, you will be allowed to discuss the topic and your strategy. Try to prepare as much as possible at this point. You will have to figure out what to say from either perspective, but that's all right: it's easier to argue something when you have an idea what your opponent might say.

• Your opponent and stance will be revealed.

• The format (It's not important that you know the names, just the information listed under them):
  • Affirmative Constructive - Argue for the resolution. In this post, you must define your terms. (More on this later). Then make your points.
  • Negative Constructive - Argue against the resolution. If you have a problem with the definitions, you must say so now.
  • Affirmative Constructive - A second chance to argue for the resolution, countering points made by the Negative.
  • Negative Rebuttal - Make your conclusions, reiterate your important points and why the Affirmative is wrong. I recommend you bring up very few, if any, new points.
  • Affirmative Rebuttal - No new points are allowed to be made here. Make your conclusions and reiterate the important points why the resolution is true.
• Terms: These are usually simply straightforward, as neither team really wants to end up arguing definitions instead of the resolution. But they can also be tricky, and it's very important to make sure both teams are on the same page. I lost a debate once because we didn't listen to the terms being defined, and then couldn't argue; the way they had defined it, they were absolutely right! Also, in my experience, many everyday arguments come down to a misunderstanding of terms.

   

  "Blue is the wavelengths between...", or "Blue is the colour of the sky.", or "Blue is when someone is sad." This last would probably be unexpected. Here's an example that should show why:

   

  "Be it resolved that blue is better than red. For the purposes of this argument, we shall assume that blue is the colour around 475 nanometres in wavelength, whilst red is closer to 650 nanometers.

   

  "Blue light is closer to X-ray light, a very useful thing in our society..... (goes on for a moment about that)

   

  "But as technical as all that sounds, ladies and gentlemen of the audience, colours have more everyday meanings in our society. When you hear the word "Blue", you think sadness. When you hear "Red", you think anger...." (et cetera)

   

  (Negative might go on to talk about red light being softer on the eyes, and closer to micro-waves which are also very useful, and red also being the colour of love...)

   

  This is opposed to someone who tried to argue that the definition of blue was sadness and the definition of red was anger, in which case you'd have a hard time bringing up any arguments you had relating to wavelengths or even to red being likened to love. Anger is not likened to love, but the colour you see at 650nm is, despite being a technical definition, still the colour red.

• Judging can be done by one or more people, so if anyone wants to help with judging, post here or PM me. If not, I'll do that on my own.

• I'll try to get everyone debating both Affirmative and Negative, and hopefully with a different opponent, but all that will depend on how many we have. So sign up quick! And indicate whether you'd like a demo, as I'm trying to organize one, but am not sure how long it will take.

• Winners from each debate get 30 geld, the other team gets 20. Each. And again, I'm hoping you both play twice.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Katzaniel

[Katzaniel]

Oh, and Topics.

 

Be it resolved that (BIRT)...

...Magic is more powerful than melee in battle.

...Apples and oranges cannot be compared.

...American spelling is an improvement over British.

...A slug is more dangerous than a cricket.

...Luigi is more fun to play than Mario.

 

NEW:

 

...The pen is mightier than the sword.

...Parents annoy teenagers more than the other way around.

...Hats show someone's character better than shoes.

 

More may be added later. (Suggestions are welcome).

 

Let me know, here or in PM, if there's any topics you can't / don't want to argue. Like if maybe you've never played a Mario Brothers game. Or something. Or if you're really inspired by one of them, let me know that too.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Katzaniel

[Patrick]

I'm interested in debating and might have a few topic suggestions after thinking about them. Do you want them posted or pm'd?

[Venefyxatu]

This doesn't look easy, but it'll be an interesting challenge. Count me in

[Vlad]

I'll join in on whatever part you want to place me, Katz.

Either debating, or judging.

 

And why didn't you just come out and call it LD-debate? I've only been doing that since freshman year...

[Salinye]

I'm interested in debating. :0)

 

~Salinye

[HappyBuddha]

Vlad's right, it's LD debating. Icky values (More nuclear war would make it better ;P)*

 

Seriously though, I'd happily leap into this activity, but I'm going to be leaving my comp. behind in just a couple of days, so I won't be here for the carnival, it seems A big bummer, since this activity looks right up my alley.

 

*This is an inside joke for debaters. If you don't get it, just move on.

[Gwaihir]

Count me in.

[Mynx]

Ooooo...

I'm in

[Katzaniel]

Sorry I'm slow

 

LD Debate? Hrm, if I had found that format in my debate books instead of having to modify the ones I did find, it might have been a lot easier for me, huh? Or is that the name for the type of topics, and not the format?

 

Patrick: Hm. PM might be better, so that I can filter anything that looks controversial.

 

Vlad: Thanks for offering both. I guess that'll depend on how many sign up. (End date to sign up, by the way, will probably be in about a week.)

 

And thanks to those that have PM'd me with preferences. I expect it will be more fun all 'round if I have an idea which topics everyone is interested in doing.

[Inspector I. M Clueless]

Inspector I. M Clueless examines the debate sign-up sheet with a magnifying glass and grumbles to himself. He traces his fingers along Katzaniel's listed instructions.

 

"Hmmm... 'stance,' yes. A discussion of colors. Tricky losses. A lead?"

 

The Inspector reaches into his overcoat and pulls out his personal "mini-recorder," which is in fact a PA system microphone. He speaks into the mic, unaware that his voice is being broadcast through several loudspeakers hooked to corners of the Conservatory.

 

"Detective log, week seven. Case of the missing detective hat. Search has proven difficult, and the lack of haircut is beginning to show. Have finally identified a lead, and will be pursuing it. Infiltration will probably be necessary."

 

With that, Inspector I. M Clueless turns off the "recorder" and writes his name on the debate sign up sheet. He then scratches his chin, hesitates, then writes "Not a Private Eye" in parenthesis next to the name.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Inspector I. M Clueless

[Black9]

I love to debate...count me in!

[Katzaniel]

I think I'll stop it here so that I can assign topics and whatnot, and give a chance to plan/study before beginning.

 

Vlad, I like the idea of 9 people better than 8 (Zool PM'd me) so I'm going to put you in there as a debater.

 

And if I ever do this again, I'm going to ask signees to include a statement on whether they've ever debated before and how good they consider themselves, so that I'm not pitting novices against experts... As it is, I'm purely guessing...

 

Group 1

BIRT a slug is more dangerous than a cricket.

Round	Affirmative	Negative
1	Vlad	Black
2	Black	Patrick
3	Patrick	Vlad

 

Group 2

BIRT apples and oranges cannot be compared.

Round	Affirmative	Negative
1	Salinye	Clueless
2	Clueless	Zool
3	Zool	Salinye

 

Group 3

BIRT the pen is mightier than the sword.

Round	Affirmative	Negative
1	Mynx	Gwaihir
2	Gwaihir	Venefyxatu
3	Venefyxatu	Mynx

 

Note that it doesn't matter whether one round ends before the next begins... in fact, I suspect that we won't have enough time to finish properly unless we start them all at once. I want to give another few days for each of you to plan both your affirmative and your negative arguements (in a real debate, remember that you have all of ten seconds after your opponent finishes speaking before you're supposed to be talking, so you need things planned beforehand) and then feel free to start the debates. In the Cab room is probably best - I'll link 'em from here so that people can watch them unfold. Good luck!

[The Portrait of Zool]

"Gah!" The portrait beamed an embarressed red. "I had meant to post here, and since I had PMed you kept putting it off - my apologies."

 

BTW, very good organization so far - Katzaniel I commend you!

[Black9]

Woohoo! Time to reseach!

[Vlad]

How do you want it done, logistically?

 

Personally, I don't think I'd want to argue the Aff and Neg at the same time, as that would just give my opponent more warrants/links/impacts. [Technical talk there, sorry]

[Katzaniel]

Well, if you want to PM your partners and discuss having one debate follow the others, and if you all agree, that's certainly possible. I'd been picturing them all go on at once, but I suppose I can see reasoning to not do that. On the other hand, I could simply request that each debater send me (in point form) the points they'd like to make beforehand, and then they can expand as much as necessary, but are only allowed to cover the points mentioned in that PM. That would prevent any in-debate brainstorming.

 

Okay. *ahem* I like that. Since I'm supposed to be in charge (no, I don't like ordering people around) and there's certainly no time for a vote or anything like that, I'll just ask that each of you PM me your stuff when you're ready. Also, I realize that I didn't give enough time to prepare, so I'm going to prescribe the due-date for this as Thursday July 21st. When all three people in a group have sent me their points, I'll just start a thread for the debates, introducing the topic and debaters. (Since I sense a certain reluctance in the area of starting it up.)

 

I hope that satifies your concern, Vlad. (Though when you talk, I can see just how much I don't know about debate...)

[Black9]

So since I'm in both first rounds...do I send you a 2 PMs...one for and one agaisnt?

[Katzaniel]

Oh... I had never meant Group 1, 2 and 3 to indicate that you were all supposed to proceed in this order. It was only a way to distinguish the groups. (This might explain why no one has started yet.) I am actually hoping to see all these debates begin as soon as possible, as I have the secret fear that none of them will finish in time as it is...

 

As for your question: Yes, either 2 PM's, or 1 with both sides clearly separated if you prefer.

[Salinye]

Katz, unfortunately, I'm going to have to ask to be removed from this. I didn't think about how long it might take to get this started and with my due date 2 weeks away and signs that I may have the baby early, I think it's best I back out rather then chance holding someone else up.

 

I think this is the coolest event available atm and wish my circumstances were different.

 

~Salinye

[Patrick]

the due-date for this as Thursday July 21st.

Whoops, missed that post and just noticed it, I'll get to work on it now and try to send it today.

[Vlad]

I'm in the same boat as Patrick here, except I don't expect to be able to manage it today. Tomorrow at the latest, I hope.

[Black9]

I sent mine in as a PM...I hope I did this right?

[Katzaniel]

Update:

 

Salinye and Mynx have both dropped out, and Zool will be away for a few more days. Some have PM'd me already, some have not... I'm not about to crack out the whip, just make sure you get it in when you can. I'm not too concerned, anyway; The only person I've heard nothing from is I.M. Clueless, so my plan at the moment is to pitch Gwaihir and Venefyxatu against each other in 2 separate debates, and do the same for Zool and Clueless (it will give him a chance to PM me his points, I hope ) Group 1 remains unchanged and everyone keeps the same topics.

[Gwaihir]

Sounds fun