Cyril Darkcloud

The spinning of planet in ring around sun cycles the seasons forward to spring and lengthening of day leads to warming of air and the draining of white into awakening green. The cycling of seasons has carried us where the day of your birth stands with the wealth of life being lived and moves into tomorrow with the vigor of limbs newly warmed by the sunlight of spring. Wishing you all the best today and throughout the coming year. Happy birthday, Justin!

Droplets bearing the salt of emotions that refuse to remain unfelt, they rise in silent and sudden numbers to press against the composure which separates Within from Without. Salty weight leaning against discipline’s seams produces openings too small perhaps for eyes to see or too large for plugging fingers to fill, that restless Within might slip its bounds and move in quiet flood into Without or simply overwhelm and submerge it beneath the rush of unbidden and unexpected streams. A difficult theme brought to words. The consistent stanza shape of 3 long lines and one short line works well here, as does the irregular number of beats hidden in visually similar line lengths. An especially fine touch is the way you use the three short concluding statements about tears to underline and drive the movement of the piece. Thanks for a good read, Vlad. Keep writing!

Those who would like to see WrenWind's writing process with this poem can do so here. WrenWind, this piece has a lot of promise. It has a clear movement about it, a nicely understated structure which blends well with the theme – evocative perhaps of the way consistent falsehood has a subtle but powerful way of negatively shaping life. The regular repetition of the word lies is a fine element of the structure of the piece, especially as it is such a strong word. The strength of the word lies also underscores the weakness of a number of the other words in the piece. In some places this contrast can be a real asset. It seems to be a liability in the center of the poem, however. The first stanza is very strong in its definite assertions and the first line of the third stanza is likewise strong. The middle stanza however lacks the strength to stand in a hinge position between the others. Part of the reason for this seems to be the expression on the other hand which takes the strength away from the word love which might be more effective on its own, perhaps even in interrogative form: Love? No. Not the love you feel for me. The last line of this stanza also seems weak – perhaps stating this idea by naming the specific shape of love that is not shared would be more effective. Perhaps an extra line or two could pick up and illustrate the idea of a love that is spoken but not meant from the first stanza. Returning to the strength of the word lies it may be worth playing with the use of punctuation in this piece. The use of periods to force the reader to pause can possibly accentuate this strength – as it is the lack of punctuation encourages the reader to move quickly over the words and thus lose their force. There a few interesting possibilities of using punctuation to shape the piece, for example: Lies. All lies. Every day I say I love you. Lies. It’s not that I don’t care. I do. I like the changes you made to the third stanza, but the new ending seems weaker without the double use of lies. You might want to consider looking at finding a way to vary the repeated doublets of lies that run through the piece here at the end, especially as the reader will expect it by this point. Another possibility would be to find a way to capitalize on not fulfilling that expectation by taking another look at the concluding movement of the piece. Needless to say, I think this is on the way to becoming a fine piece of poetry and I’m looking forward to seeing where you take it.

I'm going to add my voice to the list of those who are not excited about adding a regular debate element to the Pen. One of the reasons I joined this community is that it is different from other forums I've been involved with and an important element of that difference is the absence of the noise and rancor of debate threads. My experience of debate threads has been that the level of conversation is simply not up to the level of quality discussion but is generally little more than a series of strongly worded but poorly formed opinions flying back and forth. I'm much more interested in reading thoughtful words written in a thoughtful way about a subject than in either debating issues or in even reading a debate thread. There is an abundance of places where debate happens online, but there are very few places that maintain the more thoughtful and reflective atmosphere that is conducive to good writing. I've also seen a number of forums lose their character and focus because of the way a profusion of debate threads either changed relationships between members or took energy and attention away from the original purpose of the board. An occasional debate may well be a fine thing, but I'm a member here in no small measure because, to borrow the title of this thread for a moment, this is generally not a "ranting" community.

A few observations about the poem: 1. Vowel Sounds In both versions of the poem long A sounds are very important. Of the 12 lines which make up stanzas 3-5, 6 of them conclude with a long A sound – lame, pain, same, way, lay, made. The neat thing about this is that it allows for a steady repetition of a sharp sound that is not monotonous – pain and way, for example, sound enough alike to be near rhymes of each other but are not duplicates. This use of sound can lend a feel of continuity throughout the piece. It might be interesting to explore ways of introducing a couple more of these sounds earlier, or to experiment with the use of the sound in the middle of the lines as well. Related to this are a couple fine uses of variant forms of rhyme: • eye rhyme – In stanza 3, again and pain are words that to the eye should rhyme, but do not rhyme when spoken [unless one really stretches the pronunciation of ‘again’ ]. A technique like this fits well in writing which faces the unresolved issues that this poem raises. • endline alliteration – In stanza 2, numb and harm present the ear with the similar sounds of a soft vowel combined with the letter M. A fine and subtle touch that fits the theme of the piece well. • shifting rhyme pattern -- This is very nice. Each stanza has some form of rhyme, but the combination of rhymes shifts from one to the next. Another fine example of form working well with theme. Suggestion: A good thing to consider with this piece would be the question of how this fine groundwork can be made even more effective – whether by using more sounds of similar type or by trying to amplify the emotional content of certain lines by use of sound. 2. Grammar One of the positive dimensions of the rewritten piece is that it is not so reliant upon contractions. The use of the contraction past’s in the first line of stanza 2 and the contraction m’dear should probably be changed as well. My dear seems to be quite a bit stronger in a place that strength seems to be called for in the piece. Similarly, it is usually a bad idea to contract a verb, even if it’s only an auxiliary such as has, since verbs tend to be the strongest words in piece. Conversational tone is a good thing and I thing necessary for this piece, but it’s not always easy to do such a tone well in verse. One of the problems is with contractions. We use them all the time without thinking about them in everyday speech, but they often weaken what we try to say in piece of verse so it’s worth paying attention to them. The final line of stanza 3 needs more work as problem in the unqualified absolute makes no sense here. If speaking generally, the plural should be used. If, which is likely to be much stronger, there is a specific problem in mind the definite article the should be used. In fact, this line might be a good place to use an adverb to emphasize the verb – if the problem simply stays the same. 3. The General and the Specific Consider stanza 1 in the 2 versions of the piece. Line 3 originally read very specifically: the lies, the tears, the resolutions. In the rewrite, however, this is now in the general absolute: lies, tears, resolutions. Personally I like the change. However, the question it raises is the movement between general statements and particular issues that one sees in this piece. Too much generality, for example, will produce a weak poem while being overly specific in places might risk losing the reader in the details of a private conversation. Lines such as those which conclude stanzas 2 and 3 are worth a look with this in mind. Is the speaking stating general principles or is he speaking about a specific problem and a specific set of choices? 4. Metaphors You make use of them in stanzas 2 and 4. At the beginning of stanza 2 the understated personification of the past by attributing numbness to it is a beautiful piece of writing. In stanza 4, however you are not so successful. The metaphor of the path coupled with the sense of losing one’s way works well, but it is overturned quickly by the metaphor of the cold bed which appears suddenly and with no clear connection to what had preceded it. A good metaphor needs a little space, or, if multiple metaphors are going to be used the relationship that obtains between them should be clear to the reader.

Some thoughts about working with visceral pieces: Pieces written ‘from the gut’ can be hard to rewrite due to the emotional associations the author has with the event and moment that gave rise to them. That being said, this kind of spontaneous composition tends to need rewriting just as much, if not more than, other kinds of writing. Why? 1. In the heat of the moment we often say what we don’t mean. Consider for a moment the experience of being both very concerned about and very frustrated with someone close – often we are frustrated precisely because we are concerned, a feeling I believe parents know quite well. It is frequently the case, however, that in the heat of a difficult moment, the heat of our frustration is expressed but not the concern which is the real issue. The frustration is a real feeling, but not the deepest feeling. Sometimes it is only after we ‘cool off’ that we can identify what the real issue is. 2. Just because the author feels strong emotions does not mean the reader recognizes them. Pieces ‘from the gut’ are often surprisingly weak in their emotional impact on the reader. This is sometimes due to the author writing primarily to name or vent something he or she is feeling, not to communicate it. This happens all the time in everyday conversation without our realizing it because being able to see and hear a person gives more information than simply reading what he or she writes. In face to face conversation, for example, the statement “I’m pissed off!” comes with a facial expression, a tone of voice, movements of the body and the opportunity to ask what the problem is. Those same words appearing in print lack all of the sensory information that conversation provides and really don’t serve to do much by themselves other than to state a piece of information. The writer feels something strong, but the reader does not feel very much until those words are expanded. 3. An experience that has not been reflected upon is an experience that has not been fully felt. This something of a restatement of the adage, “An unexamined life is not worth living.” Generally things done in the heat of the moment tend to be reactive in nature – the moment provokes and we respond. This is completely normal. But to truly own the experience one must revisit the moment, especially because we never immediately grasp everything that was present at the time. Poetry at its best has to do with life and so attentiveness to life is the necessary cornerstone of good poetic writing. Conclusion: The first step toward a revision of a visceral piece of writing is to return to the experience that produced it, not to process it away but to understand it and name it for what it is so that it can it be effectively communicated. Sometimes this requires some time and space and a writer needs to step away from a 'gut' piece for a while, on other occasions it can be done fairly quickly after the initial writing. 3 questions seem to suggest themselves: 1. What am I really trying to say and share? 2. How do I need to speak in order to say and share this effectively? Am I venting or am I communicating? 3. How well do I understand the experience I'm speaking from, or what confuses me about it? Are there dimensions to it that I left out? These questions will not always have clear answers. Their purpose is not to provide content, but rather to serve as guides in making decisions about what to keep or what to change in a piece of visceral writing.

Note - I’ve spoken to Peredhil about taking a closer look at this poem. The goal here is to make what I hope are some helpful suggestions not only about specific details of the piece, but also about the process of rewriting a work like this. Again, I must stress that while I am going to speak in what might be perceived as a formal and authoritative tone, I am not a professional poetry critic nor a professional poet, I’m just a reader who’s willing to share what he’s picked up along the way on the off chance it might be useful. For those who would like to read Peredhil’s poem, it can be found here. Peredhil, rather than start with my perceptions of the piece as a reader, let’s take a look first at what you, as the author, have to say about it. I’ve taken the liberty of excerpting some of your remarks from the original thread for this purpose: This was a 'gut' post, I just kinda blurted it out and left it. Given that it is drawing responses, I feel I should actually try to tighten it up. I'm hesitant to edit the original poem because that WAS how I felt - at that precise moment. But I'm hoping to tighten it up, correct the meter, count the syllables, tweak the alliteration and tongue position transitions, etc, etc. To me, rereading, it seems as if the rhymes get weaker as they go, and the ending somewhat tapers off and lacks resolution - which I think I'll keep. Issues of this type often DO lack resolution and the closure so important to human minds... OK - given this, let’s try and lay some groundwork. From your statements about the piece the following points seem to be important: 1. It originated as a ‘gut’ piece, spontaneously written and posted in that spontaneity. 2. Given its origin, it bears something of the emotional weight of a particular moment, and this is something worth keeping. 3. There is a sense that wording and structure could be tightened up. 4. One structural and thematic dimension of the piece is a perceived weakening, or loosening, of structure that parallels a concluding statement that leaves issues raised by the poem unresolved, and this is a dimension that is worth keeping. Assuming this is a fair reading of your statements about the piece, these 4 points should provide a good set of guidelines for trying to rewrite it. In my next post or two I’ll try and put together some ideas about how to move forward with these points in mind.

Thank you all for such thoughtful comments and feedback. Gwaihir, your sense of things shifting from line 4 to line 5 is accurate. Perhaps the simplest way to explain it is that the cadences of the first 4 lines are the typical cadences I employ when speaking in a reflective key. The next several lines however, are the blunt statements of factual assertions. There is another shift at the end of the piece as assertion revisits reflection. I wish I could say that all of that is planned, but most of it originates in my own natural patterns of speech. On a technical note, the first 4 lines make use of swifter moving combinations of syllables. In particular I use a number of anapestic units [2 unstressed and 1 stressed syllable] – such as ‘on my skull’ and ‘on the bones.’ I tend to use these a lot in reflective moods as they move quickly and can bring a reader deeply into a set of ideas in a series of swift motions that are barely noticed. The ‘No’ statements, on the other hand move very slowly as they rely on putting stressed syllables close together – ‘No stain’ and ‘No streaks.’ These work well when one wants to slow things down and direct the reader’s attention to something specific and hold it there. A general rule of thumb – groups of unstressed syllables tend to move swiftly; stressed syllables grouped together slow things down. Again, I did not set out to design the piece this way. Much of it naturally took this shape. A little knowledge of how combinations of stressed an unstressed syllables work allowed me to tighten things into the shape the piece ultimately took. As for the itch ..... figuring that out is the reader’s job.

Tom Joad from the Grapes of Wrath.

Let's not be too hard on the teacher because he, or she, makes a good point. This is a very promising piece of writing with a number of very fine descriptive touches. In more than a few places, however, the the description has an "over the top" feel about it as if the writer is trying too hard. Specifically, the use of adjectives and adverbs, which are in themselves weak words, frequently has a cluttered feel about it. This is a common and entirely natural thing when the heartbeat of a bit of prose is a very fine attention to detail. In fact, it is a rather good problem to have and it is also one that it is rather simple to solve with a bit of attentive rewriting. This is a discipline that every writer needs to learn, and needs to keep re-learning -- I struggle with it quite a bit as well. Reading the piece I felt that it had the makings of a 20 out of 20 and was frustrated to see that it did not quite get there -- parts of it are simply striking. If the only feedback you received was a low grade and the vague comment of it being too descriptive, that is a shame because with a little work this could be something very good. Let me reiterate: This is a work of real talent, Lumpen. It's also a piece of writing that needs to be worked on a bit so that the talent which produced it can fully express itself.

There's no need for the grain of salt, Cerulean. You're comment is right on target, that line is unnecessary and only serves to weaken the blunt and direct movement of the following sequence of definite negations. In fact, reading the piece outloud again I was struck by how quickly my voice passes over its syllables as if they were little more than placemarkers. Thank you for pointing that out. Let's have a look at how it reads without the line. Wednesday's Ashes Wednesday's ashes have left an itch on my skull on the bones down under my skin. My forehead is clean. There's no trace of the smear the priest pressed there. No stain. No streaks. No pieces of cinder. Nothing at all but this itch in my skull on the bones down under my skin. I do like it better this way. Time to let it percolate a bit and see if that change suggests any others.

A “historical” note: Normally I do not like to comment on my poems, but on the off chance others might find this helpful or merely interesting, a couple words about this piece seem to be in order. The original version of this poem was written years ago, back in the distant days of the early 90s when I was a much younger man with a much less certain voice as a writer. Writing it back then, was something of an act of discovery for me as, despite the melancholy character of the original, it had within it the first clear signs that I had a distinctive style of sound, image and movement about my writing. I was never able to finish it to my liking back then, but it was the piece of writing that gave rise to the poetry I have written off and on since that point. Not long ago, I dug up the old notebook that had its scribbled words inside it and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that even though the originating feelings that gave rise to the piece have long since been felt and left go, I was able to say now what I could not say then, and so, could finally revisit the poem and give it the rewriting that I always knew it needed. The atmosphere of the piece is a sad one, perhaps. Working with it, however, was an awful lot of fun and it let me revisit a place in my life which, while not always happy, was certainly creative and very much alive. The best writing takes its words from the matter of life. Sometimes, it seems, however, that a bit of distance and a bit a time can make that matter more one's own and those words easier to find, and that an incomplete and uncertain beginning can still bear real and interesting fruit if given that time and that distance in which to grow. Who knows, maybe after another bunch of years pass, I’ll come back to this again and see if it needs another round of rewriting

Questions of other and questions of self, feelings of emptiness in the opening of hands that long to be held. Questions of want and questions of need and that uncertain feeling when another is seen. Statements of longing and words of desire give rise to questions and with them conspire to change our perceptions of the meaning of loss and the nature of gain and to awaken within us feelings that are often too subtle to name. A nice piece of writing, Passsions Rejected. In particular the short, strongly and directly worded lines work very well. The effect of the capitalized YOU and ME of the final lines is surprisingly effective – often this sort of thing weakens a piece, but that is not the case here. The sequence of statement followed by question is powerful, especially as the statements themselves have an element of uncertainty about them. The “I want to” statements are a very fine touch and contrast well with the “Do you” questions. That short section provides a strong heartbeat to the piece. If you get a chance, a couple of your lines could use a little work, especially those that are longer than the others. Again, nicely done and thanks for a good read. Keep writing.

* Wanders in to find a languishing Peredhil and a visionary Cerulean. Stops short. * A terrible thing it just may be when politeness languishes o so very dramatically sprawled on the couch, a sure and certain sign of the onward and inevitable rushing forward of things apocalyptic – Cerulean on a scarlet horse perhaps? Playfulness aside, I really like the idea of a weekly theme to engage our writing and would be very interested both in participating in something like that and in seeing what others would come up with. I’d like to encourage this aspect of the proposal. The notion of a contest doesn’t particularly excite me however as I do not see my better writing as the kind of thing I would submit as a contest entry or compose for a contest. I’m not opposed to the idea of having a contest, I’m simply unlikely to participate in one.

Her Eyes Her eyes they shine and call to me, but I can't see what they say. Twin gleams of somber green held inside a dance of light, they draw and hold my gaze. Mingled tears of joy and fear trace this light in shifting lines of moisture’s dance upon her face. By steps of twinkling skips lids that glide to fickle light close themselves in firm embrace Her eyes tonight they sing to mine but with no place to join their dance my eyes turn away.

Wednesday's Ashes Wednesday's ashes have left an itch on my skull on the bones down under my skin. My forehead is clean. There's no trace of the smear the priest pressed there over my nose. No stain. No streaks. No pieces of cinder. Nothing at all but this itch in my skull on the bones down under my skin.

Gwaihir, the rewritten piece moves quite a bit more effectively than the first draft but there still seem to be a few rough spots in the flow of your words and ideas. A couple observations: Stanza 1 • The first 4 lines contain quite a bit of repetition that amounts to little more than simple restatement. Rather than strengthening the ideas presented this serves to weaken them and creates a sense of redundancy – the words and ideas pick up no power by being restated. • The contrast between school and Latin lessons at home is a very fine touch that deserves a bit more attention – why does one set of lessons fill time so well while the other does not? • Does the last line really serve to advance your theme? Stanza 2 • The last 2 lines as written do not work. They read more like off-the-cuff remarks than lines of poetry. The ideas they contain are interesting, however, and you might want to play with restating them. • A tighter connection to the concluding lines of the poem might be worth pursuing. The stanza speaks much about being busy, for instance, but not about time passing quickly. This is not an easy theme to write well and you’ve done a nice job of laying out a good framework with an interesting contrast. As a reader I keep wanting you to show me rather than simply tell me things. For example what does the stress of writing paper after paper feel like? What does fighting to be oneself look like? What made those Latin lessons fun? How does the reader share the narrator’s experience of the slow passing of time in childhood or the swift passing of time later?

Elvida, You make use of an intriguing structural device in the poem which is both unusual and effective. While the referent of the poem remains constant from beginning to end, the piece develops by means of shifting the point of view from one stanza to the next: Stanza 1 -- The narrator of the poem is speaking about herself [1st person singular "I"] and describes her own feelings. Stanza 2 -- The narrator now speaks about others [3rd person plural "they"] and describes herself in terms of their questions and puzzlement. Stanza 3 -- The narrator now engages the reader directly [2nd person "You"] and describes herself in terms of the reader's actions This is a clever and skillful use different forms of address -- self-reflection, observation, direct address -- and with a bit of careful attention might be made even more effective. You might want to look at ways of connecting the stanzas more strongly to one another -- does the smile from stanza 2, for example, get seen by the reader in stanza 3? A couple small things that you might want to consider changing: 1. stanza 1, line 3 -- I walk endlessly for hours This is a contradiction that doesn't work -- endless is only a matter of hours? A bit of simple rewording should suffice to make this line more effective. 2. stanza 2, line 1 -- .... ruin my reverie The word reverie implies a calm state that is not really consistent with your use of ideas like being consumed or having fire in one's blood in the previous stanza. 3. stanza 2, lines 2 and 3 -- the who I am is redundant with the next line and the stanza would be stronger if you simply drop it This is a neat bit of work -- keep writing!

Everything seems to be OK with my e-mail settings.

The cycling of earth about sun brings the quiet movement of winter to the verging of spring. Light will soon lay claim to the better, broader part of day and the dormant potencies of quiescent, slumbering things stir with the awkward restlessness that comes with newly warming air. That which stands already alive stretches its limbs to shake free of persistent shards of ice that it might greet the coming to be of that which now begins to show the first promising stirrings of life. My fondest greetings to the two of you on your birthday and my warmest hopes for each of you for the coming year. All the best, Cyril

Elvida, It's good to see you working on this piece as it has a number of very promising ideas. You might want to consider starting a thread in the Writer's Workshop for your rewriting. This has a few advantages: 1. It would allow you to keep all of your drafts in one thread so that others can follow your thinking and give you better feedback on the changes you've made. Here, for example, to see your changes a reader has to hunt down the original piece you've posted and then compare it with the new draft. 2. It makes it easier for you to track down your work if you want to let a piece sit for a while before coming back to it. 3. The odds of getting more detailed feedback on a rewritten piece are a bit better there as feedback posts in the Banquet Room tend to be shorter and less technical. 4. You might be able to pick up some good ideas about how to work with the piece from browsing the other threads in the Writers' Workshop and Critics' Corner. 5. It allows others to learn from you if they can follow along with your process of revising your work. I think it says a lot about your desire to grow as a writer to be willing to work on improving a piece you've already posted. I'm looking forward to seeing where you take this piece. Keep writing!

Archaneous, this is an interesting piece that is worth re-working. One thing especially that you might want to take a look at is that for a poem whose central notion is that of a waterfall there is no real feeling of water anywhere but in the title and the last line. Paying a bit more attention to providing non-abstract sensory details would be one way of toughening up the piece. Expressions like 'this rush' [rush of what?] for example are rather vague and could easily be replaced with something stronger. You have a good beginning here and a bit of work could turn it into a solid piece.

A Few Specific Notes: 1. Title – The words “Feeling Old” create an expectation in the reader of a sense of ‘lateness and length of life.’ The words of the poem, however, then confront the reader with a young adult. This is a striking contrast, which while it does not work as written, could potentially be quite powerful. For that to happen, however, the poem has to provide an experience of ‘felt age’ that on the one hand is consistent with the expectation created by the title, and on the other, is also credible for a young adult. 2. First Stanza – These lines are a great jumping off point for writing, but may not be worth keeping in the final piece. If kept, they should be tightened and sharpened, but it seems that the piece might well begin with the content and feelings of stanza 2. 3. Senses – Remember that your reader will not see, hear or feel anything that you do give him to see hear or feel. Place the sights and sounds of childhood before him and let him feel the that mysterious fullness that makes a day seem so long to a child. 8 years of such days would be very long indeed, then. 4. Contrast and Transition – What changes to make those 8 years now seem so short? What are the new experiences that have made days such small things that 8 years of them flew by? Doing this would give that very fine concluding line the impact it deserves. Another Possibility: Similarity or Contrast – Looking back on childhood is one thing, but perhaps the more interesting thing is after doing that to turn around and look ahead to the next 18 years. Is there any of childhood’s lingering wonder left? Does 38 seem as far away as 18 did? Or would that make this a different poem than you are trying to write?

Lord of the Gay, you have some interesting stuff here and I'm looking forward to reading through your work a bit more carefully. Personally, however, I'd have prefered it if these had been posted separately as one long post of many consecutive pieces is rather difficult to read and my own reading style is to linger with a single piece at a time as opposed to several in rapid succession. Posting them all together also makes it more difficult to provide commentary and reactions on specific pieces. You've obviously put no small amount of effort and care into your work and the products of such care and effort are well worth being made as accessible as possible to your readers.

Cyril is a quiet man, slow to speak and measured in his words. For the sake of his daughter he has undergone exile to these “lands where life is lived far from the sky,” as his people would express it, and he seeks nothing else than to return home that he might hold his child again. His people make their home in mountain peaks that are often swept by exceedingly violent storms and this has led them to develop both a relentless tendency to hope in the face of the harshness of life in such a place as well as an almost mystical relationship with the free and unceasing movement of wind. As a result of his wanderings, both of these characteristics have become quite pronounced in Cyril. Here at the Pen, he will seldom be found inside the Keep as he cannot long abide the restrictions of enclosed spaces and prefers those remote and wild places where after difficult reflection thoughts might burst into the windy movement of words. His one companion is a small owl named Whisper.